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[0:00] Romans 1 verses 26 to 27. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

[0:21] Some of you will know that soap operas are called soap operas because people in America thought this would be a great idea to sell soap. So if you have a wee kind of drama scenario and then you can have soap adverts afterwards. And then someone caught into the idea, well why don't we have people actually using the soaps? And now of course in Hollywood films Pepsi and Toyota and others will pay fortunes to have their products actually used in the films. I think in our country it's almost as though the soap operas that we have are being designed to sell a particular lifestyle. And what I'm thinking about here at the moment is as regards homosexuality. Because it doesn't matter whether it's Brookside or Emmerdale or Neighbours or EastEnders or EastEnders, the homosexual relationships that are portrayed in them are always positive. And it's a, if someone was to say, well no, they were not keen on homosexuality, they're very often portrayed as being bigoted and ignorant and various other things like that.

[1:41] I remember being involved as a student politician. It wasn't a very good one but I was involved. And at one point I was in the process of standing for election to be president of Edinburgh University Students' Association. And according to the bookies I was favourite. But I did something that people regarded as really stupid. I was asked to speak in a debate on homosexuality and during the course of that debate I said that I was that I did not think that it was right. And I wouldn't encourage it and so on. It's a bit more complicated than that but that was in effect what I said.

[2:18] And immediately the editor of the student newspaper came up to me and said, I agree with you. And he said, I think the majority of students in this university will agree with you. But he said, don't take it personally. Tomorrow I'm going to slag you as a religious bigot.

[2:31] And that's what happened. And that's what happened because he said it was more than his job was worth to comment favourably on what was said. And I personally believe that my attitude towards homosexuality was one which was used to portray me as a bigot and I lost a lot of votes in that and I lost the election. And that's why I'm here. You'll be glad to know.

[2:53] So, the trouble that I have as a Christian with this issue is that it's always portrayed as two kinds of extremes.

[3:05] You see, as a Christian, I believe that the Bible teaches us the need for tolerance and for freedom. As a Christian, I think that we have to abhor irrational and unfair discrimination.

[3:20] But equally as a Christian, I believe that the Bible also teaches that there are certain boundaries and lines that we draw. And what I want to do this evening is to look at what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.

[3:32] Now, I'm going to presuppose some things. I'm not going to argue for them. I'm just going to presuppose them and you may want to argue about them later. But the basis on which I'm working is this. It's threefold.

[3:45] Firstly, that all of us here are human beings and that every single human, obviously, throughout the world is a human being. And that means that to some extent or other, we are all sexual beings.

[4:00] Kinsey, in his famous study of 1948, stated that 4% of men, not as everyone thinks 10%, his study didn't say 10%, he said that 4% of men were exclusively homosexual, with up to 10% being at least partially homosexual.

[4:15] Now, Kinsey's findings have been greatly questioned. And those of you who know about this research and know these figures, never accept the figure of 10% of people being homosexual.

[4:26] Kinsey was supposed to be this middle-class, middle-aged man who really had no interest other than academic in people's sexuality. Recent research on Kinsey has found that he himself was a sexual pervert in many ways, if not interested in pedophilia.

[4:44] Also, his methods of research were ludicrous. For example, 25% of the people he researched were criminals, people who were imprisoned. And that was not a representative study of that population.

[4:56] All the recent studies, and I mean by that both those conducted by Christians and those conducted by sociologists and those using much more relevant and up-to-date methods, find that the number of practicing homosexuals amongst men, the number of homosexual men rather, in both Britain and the US, is something between half and one and a half percent.

[5:23] And that's a big difference. But what I'm presupposing here, in stating that, is that we are all human beings and we all have a sexuality of some kind. The second thing I'm presupposing is this, that we are all sinners.

[5:38] There are not people who are not sinners and then other people who are. We are all sinners. We all sin. We all do things that are wrong. Many of us struggle with adapting our sexuality and in the sinful world in which we live.

[5:58] We believe in something called total depravity. Now by that I mean, not that we are as totally depraved or as bad as we could be, but that every part of our human lives is affected by sin.

[6:09] So that there is no part of your life which isn't affected by sin. And that means that my sexuality and your sexuality is affected by sin. We are not as bad as we could be, but we are not perfect.

[6:24] And then the third thing I'm presupposing is that we are all Christians. Now I realize that that's unfair. There are some of you here who may not be Christians. There are some of you who may assume that you are Christian because you use it in the sense of being non-Muslim and non-secular.

[6:38] But by Christian, I mean someone who follows Jesus Christ and who wants to know what Christ says through his word. Now I'm approaching this from a Christian perspective. I know that there are some here who are not Christians in a biblical sense and I hope that even as you hear the Christian teaching on this subject, you realize that there is something for you to come to.

[7:00] There is a God for you to know and to love. But I'm approaching this from a biblical perspective. We want to know what God says. We do think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God.

[7:14] Unlike people in Romans who thought that it wasn't worthwhile. We do want to know God. Now, it's ironic and sad that very often it is in the church that people are espousing homosexuality.

[7:34] For example, and I'm not saying this to pick on one denomination, but there may be many reports along these lines. There was a Methodist church report which said this, For homosexual men and women, permanent relationships characterized by true love can be an appropriate and Christian way of expressing their sexuality.

[7:52] And the Christian church has often used language such as this, saying, well, if there is love, then it's appropriate, it's fine, because that's what the Bible says. Now, part of the problem with that, for me, is that we have to define what we are talking about.

[8:08] And again, what I'm going to generally presuppose is this, that the question of homosexual orientation and homosexual practice are two different things.

[8:20] It is possible, and I think not only possible, but almost certain, that there are people who are homosexuals who have no sexual feelings for someone of the opposite sex, but find themselves attracted by people of their own sex, for whatever reason, and we'll look at that later.

[8:38] When the Bible speaks about, as we read in Corinthians, about no homosexual offender entering the kingdom of heaven, it is not saying that no person who has homosexual feelings can be a Christian.

[8:51] What it is saying is this, it is saying that no one who engages in homosexual practice and ignores the Word of God can be a believer in the Lord Jesus.

[9:02] If you're a believer in the Lord Jesus, you want to turn away from that. It's the same thing that's used about men. I mean, there are some sociologists who would argue that men are naturally promiscuous, that we want to go and sow wild oats and so on, and a man may say, well, I just can't help it, that's the way that I am.

[9:22] I can't be faithful to one human being, to one person. It may be that we can say that there may be some people here who find that they are constantly attracted sexually to other people, but it doesn't make it right to go and commit adultery.

[9:41] And in the same way, that applies to homosexuality. The Bible does not condemn people for being homosexuals, but it does condemn those who engage in homosexual practice, as we shall see.

[9:57] The other issue that we need to address as well is to ask, in talking about homosexuality, are we talking, and is the Bible talking about casual sex, or is it talking about a long-term expression of love?

[10:11] Now, I believe that in those things, you're two different things. But nonetheless, the Bible's teaching as a whole is quite clear in that it forbids the homosexual practice.

[10:26] Now, we go to look, first of all, at what the Bible says. That's the kind of basis from which I'm working, and the questions which I'm asking. There are four main biblical passages, or main biblical areas.

[10:41] The first is in Genesis 19, and also associated with it is a passage in Judges 19, which has to do with Sodom and Gomorrah. You know the story, how two men, two angels, came as men to Lot in Sodom, and that they stayed in his house, and the men of the city came to his house, and said, throw these men out, so that we may have sex with them.

[11:09] They were talking about gang rape, effectively. Now, we know that Sodom was condemned for that. That's how we end up getting the word sodomy. Sodom, by the way, and Gomorrah were also condemned because they were unjust, and because they neglected the poor, not just because of the sexual sin that they committed.

[11:29] That's the first passage. The second are what we call the Levitical texts. For example, Leviticus 18, 22. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. That is detestable.

[11:41] Or Leviticus 20, in verse 13. If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. That is fairly clear and straightforward.

[11:53] Then in the New Testament, we have the passage we read in 1 Corinthians 6, verses 9 to 10, and also in 1 Timothy 1, verses 8 to 11. 1 Corinthians 6 says, Don't be deceived.

[12:03] Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, will inherit the kingdom of God. And in 1 Timothy 1, verses 8 to 11, it says this, We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

[12:18] We also know that law is made not for the righteous, but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.

[12:40] Now, excuse me, explaining the words that are used there in terms of adulterers and the word pervert in 1 Timothy 1, and also what's used for homosexual offender in 1 Corinthians 6.

[12:52] There are two Greek words which have literal meanings. One is malakoi, which is what the Greeks used for a passive partner in a homosexual relation.

[13:07] It means literally soft to the touch. And one is arsenakoi, which is the literal translation would kind of be the male in bed. And it's describing a homosexual relationship in which one man is playing, if you like, as though he was a woman, and the other is being the big-boot man or whatever.

[13:28] And the Bible in 1 Corinthians 6, and in Romans 1, and in 1 Timothy 1, verse 8, onwards say, no, no, this is not right. This is wrong.

[13:39] We believe, of course, that the Bible is inspired by God, and it's God's word, and that should be sufficient for us. But many church people have gone to these texts and have engaged in very detailed debate about them, trying to make them say something else.

[13:55] But my reason for saying that the Bible is opposed to homosexuality is not actually these texts. They certainly back that up and certainly demonstrate that. But it is much, much wider than that.

[14:07] It is the whole biblical view of human sexuality and marriage. And if you turn with me to Genesis chapter 2, there's something there that I believe is particularly important.

[14:18] Genesis 2, first of all, I'll read verse 18. It's on page 5 of the Pew Bible. Genesis 2, verse 18. The Lord God said, it is not good for the man to be alone.

[14:32] I will make a helper suitable for him. And then Genesis 2, verse 24. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh.

[14:43] Now before the fall, before sin came into the world, God created human beings with a need for companionship. God created us with a capacity to be lonely.

[14:57] And the basic provision for dealing with that is marriage. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother, be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

[15:10] Now I know that later on, you get Bible teaching that's quite clear that some people are called not to be married and to be single, and that God blesses them in that, and that is a calling as well.

[15:21] But in terms of the basic human need for companionship, and expressed in a sexual sense as well, then it is marriage. Going through that verse very briefly, a man, it is singular.

[15:35] It indicates that what God intended was that there would be an exclusive relationship. No society has ever worked when people have said, well let's just have lots of relationships, or let's have lots of people that we can be married to.

[15:50] There is, it is still something that is universal throughout human society that is needed. That there is this kind of particular bond between two people. A man will leave his father and mother.

[16:04] Now sometimes I come across Christians who argue this way. They say, if you go and sleep with someone, that's you marrying them. We don't believe in all this public stuff about having a marriage ceremony and so on.

[16:17] Granted, that there are a lot of things that have been added on to the marriage ceremony, and not necessarily any of these things are wrong. But leaving father and mother implies much more than just going and being sexually involved with someone.

[16:32] It is public. It is social. And I would argue that it's an occasion, a public social occasion. And then become united or cleave to his wife.

[16:44] There is a lifelong commitment. People in our society treat sex like food. They'll try something or they'll try someone.

[16:55] If they don't like that, they'll move on somewhere else. But the whole idea of human sexuality is tied in not that we just go and get our pleasure wherever we can because ironically we end up destroying and hurting.

[17:08] but that we are... I mean, God has made this wonderful provision that we are sexually fulfilled in a relationship which is a lifelong commitment.

[17:19] Now, we know that goes wrong and we know that because of sin that's in the world there are occasions where it's right to divorce. And we know that there are broken relationships and we know that all of us struggle within our relationships.

[17:33] But that is still the aim and the ideal. A lifelong commitment. And never even contemplate getting married to someone unless you're going to be prepared to do that. Can I live with this person for a long time?

[17:46] It's like you know the Beatles album Sgt Pepper Paul McCartney's song When I'm 64 which is a kind of ironic thing about talking about his girlfriends. Will you still need me?

[17:58] Will you still feed me? When I'm 64? When I get older losing my hair many years from now? Well, a Christian has to think in those terms. Can I be committed to this person for life? And then they become one flesh.

[18:11] That commitment is consummated in sexual intercourse. They become one. That's why Paul in Corinthians says look when you go and sleep with a prostitute what you're doing has far more implications than just an ordinary sin because you become one with them.

[18:28] And what you're doing is almost like you're dividing yourself. And the thing about that that is the basic Bible teaching about marriage. And the thing about that is that God neither before the fall nor after the fall has provided any other way.

[18:43] Casual sex polygamy adultery and homosexual partnerships are wrong. They are not what God intended. It is God who made us it is God who makes the rules it is God who knows best how we work.

[18:54] Now that is the basic Bible teaching about this subject. There are arguments against and to be fair I have to say what they are and I wish to reply to them.

[19:11] By the way if you agree or disagree with any of this please feel free to speak to me afterwards or if you have other questions. The arguments against basically go along these lines. First of all there are those who say these texts that you've read they're only cultural.

[19:23] Leviticus was only written to the Israelites and Paul was writing in a particular situation in Romans. It's only cultural. What they say is that Paul and Moses didn't know about post-Freudian psychology.

[19:42] Well I would have to say this we have to be very careful not to be imprisoned in our own culture because what we tend to do is we tend to judge other cultures by ours. We tend to think that we are the wisest that we are the best that we have improved that in the past they lived in ignorance.

[19:59] But that is not necessarily true and furthermore as Christians we believe that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that God sees into the future and God knows everything about Freud and much much more.

[20:12] God knows more about us than Freud ever did. The texts are only cultural will only apply if you regard the Bible as being only cultural and therefore it becomes completely irrelevant to us.

[20:24] The second argument that's used is creation and nature. When someone says I'm made that way that's the way I am that's the way God made me. I'll not embarrass well I will I'll embarrass Andrew.

[20:40] I remember once he said he'd done something that was wrong I said why do you do that? He says that's the way God made me. Well it's a pretty good one if you want to excuse something that's wrong but a homosexual will come and will say look that's the way God made me that's the way I am I haven't sought to be this way.

[21:01] Now there we come into the heavy area of the nature nurture debate. Are we are what we are because of our genes or because of the way that we've been brought up and been taught and so on.

[21:17] Now I believe that well we'll come back to the thing about the nature nurture thing in a moment but as regards to the nature thing when we say that homosexuality is unnatural and sometimes people will argue and will say well look it's not unnatural because there are animals that are homosexual.

[21:38] That's very difficult to prove. There are one tribe of monkeys somewhere in Africa which engage in what many people see as homosexual foreplay or whatever but in general in the animal kingdom that is not the case.

[21:52] But what we mean by nature is not just Mother Earth we mean the natural order of things that God has established God created and God set certain principles in the world.

[22:07] In Romans and chapter 1 we read about it being unnatural. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another indicating that that is unnatural.

[22:27] It seems to me that it's quite clear that God did not intend for people to be homosexual. I'm not saying that we can look and we can say to someone well look it's all entirely your fault that you're homosexual.

[22:45] What I'm saying is this that there there has been and are difficulties in creation. The whole creation has been polluted by sin and it may be that part of the renewal that is hoped for with the return of Christ is to do with restoring the whole creation to a proper nature as God intended.

[23:11] Third argument against is the one that's used in terms of the quality of relationships. A Quaker report says this one should no more deplore homosexuality than left-handedness. Surely it is the nature and quality of a relationship that matters.

[23:25] And that's where as Christians we really struggle because people say what's wrong with love? If two people love one another how dare you say that that is wrong? And you sort of back off and you say well okay okay yes that's right it's important for people to love one another.

[23:42] But this is where we fall into a trap. Love is not the only absolute. It's not the case that if we love someone or something that that is all that matters.

[23:55] What if I went home to my wife tonight and said well I met this girl and I really love her and because I love her it just feels so right and so good and so proper.

[24:05] Do I have a right to do that to my family? Would I have a right to do that to this church? I could honestly argue that yes I'm totally in love with this person but that doesn't make it right.

[24:19] The quality of love is not the only yardstick by which we are to measure what is good or right. Or let me put it another way if we love someone we will be concerned for the highest welfare of the person that we love and that is found in obedience to God's law not rebellion against it.

[24:39] If I say that I love someone then I will want to do for them and I will want them to do what is best and I find that in the word of God. If I'm reducing love to a feeling that I have at a particular time because of course all of us can be attracted by other people.

[24:57] If we're married you can be attracted by someone it may be that you know you're at home and you've got the dirty socks and you've got the hassles of living with someone and then you go to work and the person you're working with is so kind and so understanding and so helpful and you have such a good life together and you find yourself being drawn closer and closer and closer and then you say well I love them so how can it be wrong?

[25:20] Well it can be wrong and it is wrong. It does so much harm and so much hurt. The quality of relationships is a very important factor but it is not an excuse to turn away from God's word.

[25:34] And then another argument that's used by people they say this look what does that him say? Just as I am without one plea can we not just come to God as we are whether we're homosexual or not?

[25:45] And the answer is yes. But we can only come to God as repentant whether we are homosexual or not. I can't come to God and say Lord accept me because I'm not a homosexual or accept me because I don't do this or accept me because I do this.

[25:58] I can only come to God saying Lord I'm sorry for the wrong that I do and I come to you seeking forgiveness because of Jesus. Christians are to accept one another but not to persist in sinning.

[26:13] See this is where I find it so difficult. If someone comes to me and says look you better accept my way of life and you better accept my opinion and if you don't love me then you can't be my friend. You can't truly love me.

[26:24] Well I can't do that. The acceptance of the gospel argument doesn't work because the gospel provokes and challenges every one of us to change our lifestyles when we come to Jesus.

[26:37] Now I want to say just a little bit about the current situation as regards homosexuality as well. That's the biblical position and some of the arguments against. I want to say a little bit about the current situation and then to give a Christian response.

[26:52] As I've said the whole viewpoint that so much of our law and social work and so on has been based upon is the one in ten figure.

[27:03] One in ten people are homosexual. Now that is just quite simply not the case. There is no research which indicates that that is the case. That is quoting from a 1948 study by as I said Kinsey and a man who had an agenda and a method of research which would be completely laughed at nowadays.

[27:24] And all study, whether secular or based, done by Christians, indicates that. The other thing I want to say without stereotyping and characterizing homosexuals is that and I'm just presenting bare statistics if you like.

[27:43] it is the case that disease amongst homosexuals is far, far higher than amongst heterosexuals.

[27:55] Now I'm not just talking about AIDS and I don't believe for a minute that we can say that AIDS is the judgment of God upon all homosexuals. In that case, if you begin to say that, you run into all kinds of problems with people who've got AIDS who are not homosexuals or children who've got AIDS and so on.

[28:15] I think what you can say is that it is true that certainly in the United States the spread of AIDS was large in the homosexual community and was at such a rate because that community is very promiscuous on the whole.

[28:31] You know that in San Francisco there are only 5,000 or there were only 5,669 male homosexual couples out of a population of hundreds of thousands, some say millions of homosexuals.

[28:47] Bell and Weinberg in their study, and again these are not Christians who are reporting this, these are sociological studies, found that 74% of male homosexuals reported having more than 100 partners during their lifetime, 41% more than 500, and 28% more than 1,000 partners.

[29:06] It is generally the case. There are exceptions. There are homosexuals who stick only with the one partner throughout their life, but that is very much in the minority, and that shouldn't surprise us.

[29:20] If a homosexual wishes to reject what the Bible says about homosexuality, why should they accept what the Bible says about sticking to one partner? it seems that the situation that exists at the moment is that homosexuality is prevalent in our society and is probably increasing.

[29:44] It also is the case that it's going to be more and more difficult for those who are Christians who object to homosexuality.

[29:55] Let me give you a basic example if there's a church in California who disciplined their organist because he was a practicing homosexual and boasted about his homosexuality, and he sued that church, and he won, and it cost the church a lot of money.

[30:15] In our own society, those of you who have been training to be social work students, I wonder how many of you would pass your course if you said that you didn't believe that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children. I think it would be very difficult because you'd be classed as bigoted and so on.

[30:32] And it may be that we will find an increasing not only acceptance, but an agenda which pushes homosexuality upon people, particularly in schools.

[30:44] At the moment, the situation in schools is not bad in Dundee, but it may be that we could reach the situation that exists in inner London with an LEA, the London Education Authority, where they have produced books which, for very young children, teaching them about two males living together as mum and dad, or as dad and dad.

[31:09] It is something that is more and more in our society, and I would say, as regards our own fellowship here, that one of the things that will affect us more and more is just the general confusion about sexuality.

[31:23] One sociological study suggests that a large number of people, maybe even a majority of people at some point in their life, will have some kind of homosexual feeling, usually when they're much younger, and they can very often, it's something that they just grow out of or forget.

[31:40] But how do we teach people? What do we find? What would you do if, in this congregation, you found that the person sitting beside you was a homosexual? I was on a committee, Free Church Committee once, and I've told some of you this before.

[31:56] I'd spent, actually, the previous week with someone who was a homosexual and was struggling with coming to terms with that. And a minister on that committee said to me, do you know, we don't have that kind of thing in the island of Lewis.

[32:11] Well, she was from the island of Lewis, and it was, I found it quite unbelievable. The man just assumed that homosexuality just didn't, just didn't happen.

[32:22] You know what we tend to do in the church? We tend to squash things, we tend to push them down, we tend to cover them up, because we make homosexuality a far worse sin than any others, or any form of sexual sin. And that shouldn't be the case.

[32:33] I believe there is a Christian response to homosexuality, and I want to set that before you just now, as briefly as I can. I'm tying it around faith, hope, and love.

[32:44] First of all, faith. Faith accepts God's standards. The secular world says sex is essential to human fulfillment, so to deny homosexuals is to be cruel. How can you do this to these people?

[32:54] That's the way that they feel. So, you should allow them to express their feelings. Faith says no. Faith says no, I accept God's standards. And you see, I think that the secular world's view is horrendously horrible to those of you who live celibate lives and who are not married.

[33:10] Are you less human? Are you not fulfilled? Faith is, sexuality or sex is not essential to human fulfillment.

[33:22] Faith also accepts God's grace. We read in 1 Corinthians 6, that is what some of you were. You were like this, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

[33:33] Now, I don't believe that Paul was saying that these people never had any homosexual feelings again. That may have been the case. But I think what he's really teaching is that they were able to be chaste. That they were able to remain pure.

[33:47] That's not impossible. And I want to say to those of you who are Christians who are plagued by sexual sin, whether it's homosexuality or adultery or pornography or whatever, you are not helpless victims of the world, the flesh or the devil.

[34:02] Don't listen to the world's arguments. Don't lapse into self-pity and don't feed the imagination with pornography that just enables you to live in a fantasy world. Live by faith.

[34:13] Accept God's grace. You know, those who've engaged in sexual sin, sometimes the devil will come and you'll have all these kinds of fears and doubts in your minds.

[34:23] Well, a real faith, accept God's grace. I was washed. I was sanctified. And then hope. What are the causes of homosexuality? Is there a homosexual gene?

[34:34] Even if there was something that made someone more predisposed to homosexuality, that doesn't justify it any more than an anger gene. When someone says, well, you know, it's just the fact that I'm redheaded justifies me being angry all the time.

[34:51] Now, I accept that this may be wrong, but my reading of this and my understanding of this can be summed up in the following statement.

[35:02] That rather than being primarily a genetic thing, though genetic factors may be involved, exclusive preference for the opposite sex is an acquired taste. In other words, it is more learned than inherited.

[35:15] Can it be unlearned? Now, I came across a very interesting study in John Stott's book by a woman, Dr. Elizabeth Moberly, where she says this, A homosexual orientation does not depend on a genetic predisposition, hormonal imbalance, or abnormal learning process, but on difficulties in the parent-child relationships, especially in the earlier years of life.

[35:40] And she goes on to talk about how it's particularly same-sex difficulties. And I believe that, from what I've looked at and studied, and from my own limited personal experience, that there is a great deal of truth in that.

[35:54] That it is abnormal relationships, very often in childhood, which push someone towards a homosexual orientation. I believe that we do need deep, loving, lasting, same-sex relationships.

[36:10] It's incredible, isn't it, that if you're a young man, and at 14 years old, and you go to school, and you don't have a girlfriend, they say, oh, you're gay. It's interesting that in our society, which is supposed to be so open towards sexuality, that the biggest insult that the kids pay to one another is, oh, you're gay.

[36:24] And if you're remotely different at all, you're gay, you're gay. It's used as a term of insult in a horrible way. It's horrible that two girls go to one another or kiss one another and say, oh, you're gay.

[36:37] Well, to my mind, we are going way over the top in reaction. We need deep, loving, lasting, same-sex relationships.

[36:48] Love is the basic therapy. Love is the basic problem, the great need and the only true solution. Moberly puts it this way, if we are willing to seek and to mediate the healing, redeeming love of Christ, then healing for the homosexual will become a great and glorious reality.

[37:03] There is hope for anyone who is a homosexual, that they can live a life which is in accordance with God and that will be accepted and loved by other people. And that's the third thing, love.

[37:17] It is ridiculous that in any Christian context or in any Christian church, not just ridiculous but sinful, that homosexuals are the object of scorn, of insult and of fear, of revulsion and of homophobia.

[37:31] One man puts it this way, at the heart of the homosexual condition is a deep loneliness, the natural human hunger for mutual love, a search for identity and a longing for completeness.

[37:43] Now, if that loneliness and if that hunger for mutual love and if that search for identity and if that completeness cannot be found in this church, then we should pack up and go home because we can't call ourselves a Christian church.

[37:56] That has to be found and that is why homosexuals will be welcome in this church. Those who seek to live in accordance with God's Word, those who are confused, those who want to find out more, of course homosexuals will be welcome.

[38:11] And there is no revulsion saying, oh yuck, you horrible people. There's no homophobia in that sense. We recognize that in the Bible there are many same-sex relationships that are tied in.

[38:23] You think of people who are really good friends as well as being related, Ruth and Naomi, Paul and Timothy and David and Jonathan who loved each other with a love that was greater than that. of a love for a woman. And yet there is no hint at all of homosexuality in that.

[38:39] If you are a homosexual, it's very tempting to go to the homosexual community and look for that community to meet your needs. But it will not meet the deepest needs of your heart because you were made by God for God.

[38:53] And I hope that you will be able to know God and I hope that you will seek to live in accordance with God's Word and I hope that in the Christian church you will not be rejected but accepted.

[39:05] We can't accept what is contrary to God's Word. We can't accept that you can be a Christian and continue to live a homosexual lifestyle. The two things will so inevitably crash that you have to choose one or the other.

[39:20] But we can say this, that in Jesus Christ there is faith, there is hope, and there is love. We can choose that or we can give ourselves over to every kind of depravity.

[39:33] In other words, we can reject the knowledge of God and find ourselves immersed in a degrading and humiliating and lack of fulfilling state or we can come to Christ and immerse ourselves in the faith and the hope and the love that comes from Jesus.

[39:55] So, back to where we started. I refuse and I will not give in to this emotional pressure and blackmail to say, well, okay, homosexuality is alright just so that I can seem to be tolerant and so on.

[40:12] I believe that I am tolerant. I believe I have to tolerate what God tolerates and I believe that I don't have to go along with things that God says are wrong. It is clear from the Scriptures that God who made us says homosexuality is wrong.

[40:28] It is also clear that there are homosexuals who become Christians and who remain Christians and who probably in many ways in their own feelings and in their sexuality remain homosexual and yet they live pure lives and godly lives and bring great honour and glory to God.

[40:46] I conclude with just one reference, one story. Ken Larter who works in First Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia with AIDS victims was primarily homosexuals he was dealing with.

[41:04] one of his friends, he asked if one of his friends could, who was a travel agent, could come and stay with us when we were in Brora. This gentleman came to stay with us. We knew he had AIDS.

[41:15] We knew he didn't have long to live. And he was very homosexual. In lots of ways he, it was almost like a caricature. But he was a great guy. He was a really nice guy.

[41:27] And what intrigued me about Ken was, and what he loved about Ken was, Ken had him look after and babysit his children. Now he recognised that he could not fulfil his sexual desires.

[41:40] He recognised that the lifestyle he'd led before as a homosexual prostitute was wrong. But he had a peace and a joy and a quality of life which I could only admire.

[41:52] He died about seven or eight months after he returned to the States. And we felt really sorry at hearing that.

[42:03] But also privileged at being able to hear that. In Christ there is hope. And I would pray that in this church that there will be hope as well. Amen.

[42:14]  May the Lord bless his word.